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  #1  
Old 07-03-2010, 01:17 AM
PAWNJOB PAWNJOB is offline
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Question Next Generation Machines ???

Can anyone please explain how the three different materials used to make these machines effects how they run (either in general or preferably how they pertain to the Next Gen machines specifically)?

Next Generation gives you the choice of Aluminum, Steel, or Brass.

Thanks in advance,
-Pawn

Last edited by PAWNJOB; 07-03-2010 at 01:58 AM..
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  #2  
Old 07-03-2010, 08:37 AM
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TattooPadawan TattooPadawan is offline
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Default Re: Next Generation Machines ???

My first 2 machines were from Next Gen.
The only thing I dont like about them is the fact that they are a 2 part frame.
Alot of needless vibration.
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  #3  
Old 07-03-2010, 10:20 PM
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Deran Deran is offline
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Default Re: Next Generation Machines ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAWNJOB View Post
Can anyone please explain how the three different materials used to make these machines effects how they run (either in general or preferably how they pertain to the Next Gen machines specifically)?

Next Generation gives you the choice of Aluminum, Steel, or Brass.

Thanks in advance,
-Pawn
You're not going to get information like this on your first post, without even posting some of your work and proving that you're a professional. The fact that you're even asking this is going to raise some flags. No idea at all?

Hope this doesn't sound rude. You're likely to get more info if you do that though.
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  #4  
Old 07-03-2010, 11:02 PM
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tala tala is offline
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Default Re: Next Generation Machines ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAWNJOB View Post

Next Generation gives you the choice of Aluminum, Steel, or Brass.

-Pawn
So... How about some questions...
What are the electrical and magnetic characteristics of each of these
materials? What would be the benefits of using one over the other? And...
if you had your choice... which material would you prefer? How come?

Tala
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  #5  
Old 07-03-2010, 11:08 PM
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  #6  
Old 07-04-2010, 04:10 AM
PAWNJOB PAWNJOB is offline
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Default Re: Next Generation Machines ???

Whoa... sorry to insult all the natives. Some forums welcome questions like these, some don't, I get it. I've read several of your posts on this and other sites, Deran. A lot of them are answers to what I'd consider newbie questions, that's probably why I came across so many of them as they pertain to me. Some good information. I've seen your work too, really pretty nice. And I do have some idea about the machines, but not a good idea. Unfortunately I took a tattoo class 8 months ago with an instructor who wasn't very knowledgeable about the technical aspects of machines. At least she was thorough w/ sanitation training and made sure that I got OSHA certified for bloodborne pathogens. I've also studied a little bit with a veteran tattooer who has taught me a bit about technique and using appropriate needle configurations but he isn't very knowledgeable about machine tuning either, pretty frustrating! I've actually learned more from these forums and the Eikon site than anywhere. While these four sources haven't been ideal or 100% reliable, they're all I have and I'll take what I can get until my circumstances allow for me to get a proper apprenticeship with a worthy mentor. I'd been working as a Fine Artist and Graphic Designer for a decade after graduating college w/ a BA. But when I moved back to my home state a couple years ago and the economy started slipping, I found it really hard to find work w/ enough pay to support my wife and two kids. So I've been working as a Laborer w/ an asphalt company since to pay the bills. I'm trying to line up an apprenticeship for the end of the season this year in November. Until then I'll continue learning slowly but surely, only taking on what I feel comfortable and confident tattooing. I feel that I've been pretty responsible by putting a LOT of people on hold. So far I've only been doing simple, easy to render designs and only using black and black washes. At any rate I do understand why you wouldn't want to pass on info to just anyone. I'll probably try posting some of my work soon and have another go at getting some questions answered here.

But Tala, I did ask a question... it was right above the sentence that you quoted. I thought it was pretty straight forward too. I'd just like to know how they run in comparison to each other. If you could answer that it would be great. If you'd like to explain w/ specifics such as how conductivity and magnetic properties effect the way they run and the benefits of one over another that'd be even better.

I've heard a lot of people bash aluminum and heard from a lot of others who like it (particularly FK Irons and Next Gen aluminum machines). I've heard some builder's say that they don't like using aluminum and haven't had luck building with it but have tried aluminum machines that they really liked. However I've never heard why they liked or disliked it or any reference to how they run. Same w/ magnetic qualities, either like or dislike, not what the magnetic properties are or how they actually run. I gather that most people like using steel, iron, and brass for machines but I still don't know why. Other than the fact that aluminum despite being light vibrates a lot, iron and low carbon steel are easy to machine, and brass being heavy absorbs more vibration, I don't really know how they run!


P.S.
Just a little more background, I started out on Spaulding-Rogers machines even though I'd heard bad things about them because that's all my instructor was familiar w/. They get hot and run a little too slow for me w/ too soft of a hit. The second set of machines I got are National Fly-weights. They liner has more balls and I can tattoo a much faster, more solid, cleaner line w/ it. I wasn't much happier w/ the National shader though, at least not the way it's tuned up right now. My new Soba iron Clipper shader's treating me pretty nice though, very consistent! Of course I don't have a lot to compare it to though, my only mentor uses the same Nationals that he recomended. Seems like anything decent would be better compared to my other machines.

Last edited by PAWNJOB; 07-04-2010 at 04:18 AM..
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  #7  
Old 07-04-2010, 04:41 AM
carterink carterink is offline
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Default Re: Next Generation Machines ???

it seems that your worried about the wrong things. The frame material is least of your concerns. Tuning is what you should be concentrating on. if you have a soba machine, then you already have one good machine in your arsenal that far outways a next generation POS. that's my opinion, if anyone else feels otherwise i mean no offense.

Fact is you need to grasp all the other factors of making a machine run well before you start worrying about the frames affects on it's magnetic fields.

look up paco rollins. nough said and good luck
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  #8  
Old 07-04-2010, 10:53 AM
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Deran Deran is offline
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Default Re: Next Generation Machines ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAWNJOB View Post
Whoa... sorry to insult all the natives.

I wasn't in any way insulted. I was giving you advice. Post some of your work and such. We like knowing who people are.

The aluminum machine is lighter than the steel one. I can tell you that much. The Eclipse runs better than the Orion though, IMO.
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Last edited by Deran; 07-04-2010 at 10:57 AM..
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  #9  
Old 07-04-2010, 12:55 PM
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tala tala is offline
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Default Re: Next Generation Machines ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAWNJOB View Post
But Tala, I did ask a question... it was right above the sentence that you quoted. I thought it was pretty straight forward too. I'd just like to know how they run in comparison to each other. If you could answer that it would be great. If you'd like to explain w/ specifics such as how conductivity and magnetic properties effect the way they run and the benefits of one over another that'd be even better.
So... Pawnjob...

The issue is this: It'll take a measure of time to gain a certain respect from
folks who've been tattooing for their/our lives. (Seriously FOR...) Even then
you may not get the information you're asking for. You're trying to break into
a life over-saturated with people; "wanting to support their families." Most
of these folks care only about their families and the necessary $$$, which by
the way... ain't there for most of the people tattooing. (the $$$ that is...
keep tattooing and the family may not be...) Seriously, you'll make more money
spreading asphalt, it'll cause you less grief, and... if you're lucky; all
y'all will organize a laborer's union... Tattooing is still infused with
carny/circus/sleaze and a strong dose of outlaw. At least the folks I hang out
with fall into those catagories... This means; bring your waders and watch
your back... Have a tough hide, cause you're going to need it.

So, the questions asked always have a purpose; well, several purposes...
(nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition...) We, specifically I, need to know
who you are, what your experience is, and... what you're willing to do to find
as much of the information you need on your own... especially since you're
basically on your own, not an apprentice... And... obviously not a tattoo
artist. (You may become one, but you'll really have to earn it... Lot's O'
Work!)

I talk every f@#king day with people who want to know how they can learn to
tattoo. (One day I had four people ask... three of them back to f@#king
back!!!) I sit down with each and every one of them and ask questions, tell
them the facts of life and give them a few suggestions. If they later return
having done any of the research or drawing I've subconsciously suggested I'll
talk to them a bit more. I've yet to take on an apprentice... very few people
even come back for the second sit down even though I warmly invite all to
return. I read the lack of diligent pursuit of a dream as folks wanting
something for nothing... The specious entitlement of "rights" over and above
the equal requirements of responsibility, investigation, effort, and
service... I've been "talking" with one person for almost a year now. This
person is diligent, does the research and draws, draws, draws... They listen,
challenge, reflect and acknowledge. Rare qualities... (except for the
challenging which is a national sport... Well, no one said arrested
development was without dissonance... cognitive or not...)

Here; we'll try the questions in another form...

What are the qualities of aluminum? Magnetics, Electrics, Weight,
Machinability, Feel, Finish...
What are the qualities of brass? Magnetics, Electrics, Weight, Machinability,
Feel, Finish...
What are the qualities of Steel? Magnetics, Electrics, Weight, Machinability,
Feel, Finish...
What are the qualities of Iron? Magnetics, Electrics, Weight, Machinability,
Feel, Finish...

If YOU were going to build a machine what would YOU choose? What do you know
now? What do you need to know? Do the research...

What do coils do? What is a door bell? Who is Samuel O'Reilly?
Who was his apprentice? Why didn't Edison invent the tattoo machine?
What is EMF? How is magnetism different from electricity? Why are watts
important? What are watts? Watt will you do-do?

Do the legwork. Stop expecting knowledgeable artists to "give" you the
information. On the other hand.... you could get lucky... but... Keep your
day job. Most tattoo artists work 80-120 hours a week and their families suffer
as a result. Few get paid for the artwork, the research, the testing, the
building, the mixing, the thought of it all... It's a calling, a life. VERY
different from; "a job to pay the bills."

Tala
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  #10  
Old 07-04-2010, 01:16 PM
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Deran Deran is offline
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Default Re: Next Generation Machines ???

f@#kin A. Greatest post ever.
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